Upskilling for the AI Era

Amanda Quinn 0:00
The rallying cry that I would love BPOs to start embodying is how can you start being more proactive with your clients, but bringing your perspective, having served lots of companies like them? Like the brand only knows their side. They only see their side. They don't know the best practices that they read and hear about conferences and whatnot. You live it all day long with a variety of clients in a variety of different industries, most likely, brighted workflows. Bring that excellence to your clients and say, hey, have you thought about this? We would recommend you overhaul your training. Your this is um, this takes way too long. We think make these changes.

Milan Batinich 0:42
All right. So, Amanda, today on today's podcast, I really want to talk about upskilling and reskilling agents at BPOs and BPO employees in general, as more and more and more BPOs are bringing in AI into their into their uh facilities, into their shops. So I really want to dig in and talk about the importance and why it's a necessity now and in the future of upskilling and reskilling everybody. Everybody that's uh entry level.

Amanda Quinn 1:13
Everybody, period. Yeah.

Milan Batinich 1:14
Everybody, period.

Amanda Quinn 1:16
Yeah, the whole org will need to change. I feel like AI is ever present in our lives at the moment. Just the it's like a thought bubble that's just like permeating every conversation, every webinar, every, you know, life I have that's digital, I guess. And yes, I'm really excited to talk about this. I think it's gonna be really top of mind, certainly for our audience.

Milan Batinich 1:42
Um and if they if it isn't top of mind and needs to be top of mind for our audience.

Amanda Quinn 1:47
Great.

Milan Batinich 1:48
It's here. It's here. There's no there's no, oh well, we'll prepare for five years from now. It's like, no, no, you need to prepare for now. If you're starting to prepare, you're a little bit late to the game.

Amanda Quinn 1:58
It's coming very fast. It's coming very fast. And I know we you talked, um, you were telling me yesterday that you've been chatting with some brands and how they're very mindful on their side of all the changes that AI has enabled and what they need to be doing. And I feel like BPOs are later, like they're more in denial about it. So I'm like really excited to get into this conversation about what they should be thinking about, how this affects the team. So, where would you like to start?

Milan Batinich 2:28
Yeah, uh just uh to piggyback on your points. I feel like it seems like that brands, uh, when you think of the adoption curve, seems like brands are more of those early adopters or have been, where BPOs, to your points, are coming in a little bit later uh to the game. And when brands are looking to work with a new BPO or a BPO, you know, they're they're finding that, oh, this BPO doesn't understand or doesn't recognize the importance of AI when the brand's already been using it.

Amanda Quinn 2:56
And that must be um hindrance in sales conversations.

Milan Batinich 3:00
It is, it is, yeah. Because if the brand's already been using it for the last year or two and the BPO doesn't recognize the need for it or the benefit of it, then yeah, the brand I'm just thinking, well, this BPO may not be a good fit for us.

Amanda Quinn 3:15
Mm-hmm. Or can't even I mean, I don't know how many BPOs realistically don't know that there's a need for AI, but I think there's a lot of uncertainty around how does it affect our business? What should our team be doing? Where does it fit in? What role do we have in AI and what should the brand own? Um, what do we want to be known for? I think that's kind of the feeling I'm getting in a lot of conversations that I have with BPOs.

Milan Batinich 3:46
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I agree.

Amanda Quinn 3:49
Um so as from the, I know you want to focus a lot of this on the employee engagement side. Um, so where as you think about it, you know, I think we can open up a newspaper and every headline you read is like AI is going to replace humans and um the workforce. What are you advising BPOs to kind of start be thinking about, start thinking about and start doing?

Milan Batinich 4:16
Yeah, definitely. Uh great question. Great way to kick this off. So I would say first and foremost is to start training agents or start if you haven't started career pathing, start offering career pathing to your agents, to those tier one type of agents, whether it's upskilling them into a tier two, tier three uh type of role, switching them on a different program that is more high level, figuring out if if long term, what what you know, which you should already be figuring out long term to engage employees, you should be figuring out long term what their goals are. You know, do they want to get into more operations, more leadership, training, QA? Are they wanting to get into sales? There's so many different routes within a BPO that an agent can go into. So really start off with career pathing, communicating with the agents, figuring out where it is that they want to go, and then start upskilling them, start giving them opportunities to learn those other areas, or if it's to stay within the contact center, but maybe at a higher level, start building out a roadmap for those agents so that way they don't get lost in the mix. Because if you, you know, I think we were talking earlier, if you have a thousand tier one agents and don't have a plan for them, and then you implement AI and it replaces the majority of that easier work, then what happens to all of your agents? You don't wanna you don't want to become a BPO that's known or comes across the headlines on LinkedIn and elsewhere as, oh, this BPO just laid off hundreds of agents. I want to be able to give them opportunities within the organization.

Amanda Quinn 5:48
Yeah. And I want to pause for a second because we kind of glossed over it, but I think it's worth stating explicitly because I've had and certainly enough conversations with BPOs to know that there's some denial on this. But I think BPOs need to be prepared for most tier one work going away faster than you think. And I know there are certain industries that may cling on longer or and maybe certain types of customers that you work with, if that's the what the campaign or that the the business that um is running that campaign. But I think a lot of I for me personally, I'll say a couple of years ago, I thought we were even last year, I thought this was three to five years away. And it feels like it's a 2026, 2020 kind of phenomenon that we're gonna be observing.

Milan Batinich 6:38
Definitely. Yeah. Think of like the interactions that require high touch or that white glove service. That type of tier one white glove service probably isn't gonna go away, to your point, Amanda. But the more easier to answer, I'm thinking like, you know, restaurants that outsource reservations, doctor appointment scheduling, retail, e-commerce, those types of brands that outsource a lot of that's can be handled by AI today, you know, right now in 2025. And to your point, it's gonna, AI is gonna further develop so much that a lot more will be able to be handled by AI. So with that being said, yeah, it's understanding, okay, knowing that the majority of those jobs will be handled by AI, majority of those interactions will be handled by AI, then how do we engage the employees that we do have and upskill them and give them the opportunities to be able to stay on with the BPO.

Amanda Quinn 7:31
Mm-hmm. And this isn't even just, I mean, certainly there's the human element, right? Like you, I think most BPOs and most company owners don't want to be in a position where they're laying off a bunch of teammates because they lose campaigns or that business goes away, right? But from a business side too, you're more likely to lose those campaigns if you haven't upskilled your agents. If you can't prove to your clients that you're eager and ready and willing to take on the next level work and are having those types of conversations with your clients, I think a lot of BPOs will find if they're sitting back and reactive, this is gonna just happen to them. And I guess what I want to pause and make the recommendation is you really need to be leaning into this and working with your clients. You need to what are you looking for?

Milan Batinich 8:26
You need to be proactive versus reactive. Like if you're gonna be reactive, you're gonna lose. If you're proactive, you're gonna win. And even aside from all the employee engagement talk and everything, when you think of your salespeople, we'll go to the sales uh part, you know, training your salespeople to not maybe always try to sell the low-hanging fruit, don't always try to sell the tier one agents because eventually that'll go away, anyways. But to start selling, you know, focusing their sales efforts on those higher level type of roles within the contact center. So focusing their time and their efforts, their energy on tier two, tier three type of roles because it's gonna become discouraging and you're gonna lose good salespeople. They're gonna become disengaged because they're gonna start, they're gonna continue to sell all these tier one type based clients, and then all that tier one will go away. Well, now what happens to their commission? It goes away. And uh, salespeople, we know what's what they're driven by typically is money. So I think that's a really focus.

Amanda Quinn 9:27
Yeah, that's a really important point. And I think the like what Paul was saying in our last conversation, on the last episode of getting your sales team incentivized to do making sure your incentives, I should say, are aligned with the behavior that you want your sales team to engage in. I think is really important. And I would I would say that I think in addition to just them thinking about selling or trying to sell higher level things, that the a big upselling, upskilling will need to be on getting your sales team into more of a solution-oriented mindset of being more curious and you know, taking the sales conversation almost from a like what what are you trying to solve? What's your objective here? Not like, oh, you need people at this price rate. Okay, we can offer that, you know, because I think the future is going to become more of a hybrid of human plus technology, and you need to be able to go in whatever direction your clients or your prospects want to go in.

Milan Batinich 10:28
Right.

Amanda Quinn 10:28
And that that's a big change for most salespeople.

Milan Batinich 10:31
Right. And whether it's salespeople or tier one agents, the way to do that upskilling is you have to train them. You know, there's been several BPOs I spoke with probably in the last, I don't know, six weeks or so, that they're like, great, I'll just hire people that already have that skill set. And so they're already have some of them already have the mindset of I'm just gonna replace. And it's like, no, you don't need to go through the whole number one, employee engagement will dip drastically. I mean, it's gonna drop tremendously if you're just gonna hire people that already have that skill set. Um, but instead of going through the hassle of posting ads, interviewing, hiring, doing all of that, when you already have people on staff that can easily learn the new information. Obviously, they learned when they started with your BPO because they're still there. They learned the program, they learned everything they needed to, they gained the knowledge. So it'll be that it would be so much easier just to upskill them. But the BPOs need actually put in the work to train those employees to be able to go into those other roles or whatever the role might be. And you need to train your salespeople to be upskilled, to be able to do everything that you just talked about, Amanda, with the new type of sale where it's not just, oh, you need 20 FTEs to answer questions about do we have these products in our store? Yes or no? Uh, those types of things. You know, instead of that, uh instead of hiring somebody that already has a skill set, you need to develop the training and train them quickly sooner rather than later. Because, like you mentioned, 2026, 2027, we're two and a half months away from 2026. Like it's here. It is here. You need to like start now with that upskilling, with that training. And it'll number one, you'll have a more highly engaged workforce if you upskill and reskill those folks, whether they're sales, trainers, QA, agents, whatever operations, whatever department they are in. Um, but then you also save money and save time uh as well, you know, versus hiring a whole new workforce.

Amanda Quinn 12:33
Yeah. And I think if I were a BPO listening to that, my next question would be like, what am I training them on? How do I know what to train? And I think the answer is you need to step back a bit and figure out where you want to take your business. Right. Like, where do you think your business is going? What are the skills that will be needed for all of those different functions? And then put a training plan in place. Like training, I don't think it's the band-aid that you just snap on. Okay, we need to train. It's like, no, where are we? This big tanker, is that is that what do you call the big boats out tanker? This big tanker is like, we need to make a pivot here. Like it's gonna take some time, but we need to figure out what direction we're heading in first, and then we can all kind of align on what what needs to happen down below to I love that.

Milan Batinich 13:23
I love that visual. I love that visual. Yeah, you're not turning a speed boat out on a lake, you're turning a tanker out on the open ocean. Yeah, that is so, so true. And and if you're a BPO listening or watching this right now, you may be thinking, well, I don't have, I don't know. I don't know what the future of our BPO is. And that's where you need to start thinking about that today, like right now, and start developing that plan and be decisive. Make the decision on which direction you're gonna move forward with and begin moving forward.

Amanda Quinn 13:55
Yep. And thankfully there are consultants like yours truly there to help help BPOs navigate this exact moment. That's what we do. Because it is, it's murky, it's unclear. It's every single BPO has will have a different strategy, will have a different approach, a different direction that their tanker is heading in or should head in, and how that cascades down through the org will ultimately result in different tactics. And so, yeah, there's not a one size fits all approach, but being you can't hit a what is it? You can't hit your, I don't know, I'm gonna mess the analogy, but like if you don't know what direction you're heading in, you're never gonna, you're never gonna hit it, right? You're never gonna be successful if you don't know exactly what you're trying to achieve. And so getting that clarity on like recognizing that this is the big shift in the business.

Milan Batinich 14:47
Yeah, getting that clarity is huge. Yeah, yeah. I I forgot what I was gonna say, but that was that was uh uh spot on because oh, that's what I was gonna say. Uh otherwise you get into the whole um analysis paralysis because you're thinking like, okay, there's a hundred different avenues I can go down. I don't know which one to go down, therefore I'm not going to make a move, and I'm not gonna go down any of them. And I'm just gonna hope, which is not a strategy, I'm just gonna hope that this AI thing doesn't take over or technology doesn't take over, and I'll just be able to run with these 500 agents that I have that are all tier one and hope this doesn't happen. But you need to be decisive because yeah, otherwise, as you're analyzing, you need to make that decision. Otherwise, you're gonna end up being stuck and then behind and then trying to play catch up once you see where all the other BPOs are going in all their different directions.

Amanda Quinn 15:36
Yeah, and that's never a fun position to be in. Like you want to be you don't want to wait until you're feeling the pain of your clients starting to churn and you losing revenue to make you start lit like realizing this is real. Um, I don't want that to for that. I don't want that to happen to you. Neither does Milan, and that's why we're talking about that today. But you certainly don't want to be the last one making this change because the the market will have moved and you will what you think is innovative and is uh a big deal and a big difference for you, which it is, is not gonna be a big difference in the market. And you're gonna look like a lagger. And those are the types of companies that at big pivotal moments like this don't persist necessarily. So let's not have that happen to you.

Amanda Quinn 16:26
And the fact that you're listening to this podcast tells me that you're not one of those kinds of BPO leaders. And so I have faith that you're gonna steer your ship in the right direction. So Milan, what what as they're starting to think about? So I knowing that everything is kind of we can't put a magic crystal ball together to say this is what the future is. We don't even fully know what AI is going to do and how it's going to permeate and affect all every type of organization, um, but BPOs in particular. What is your advice for kind of start it, like thinking about upskilling or thinking about how to um start planning for AI in this front?

Milan Batinich 17:05
Yeah, yeah, that's excellent. I mean, from my perspective, I would start to even if you don't know what direction your BPO is going to go in, I would start planning the easy things that no matter what direction your BPO goes in, if you start upskilling or start training your agents specifically, we'll talk agents for a second. If you start targeting those agents specifically with things that no matter which way you pivot would be beneficial for them. So whether it's training them on more complex problem solving or critical thinking or emotional intelligence, the type of the type of skill sets that they would need no matter what direction you move in. And then as you develop the direction that you're wanting to move in, then they'll already have some of those more critical problem-solving skills or complex problem-solving skills. So then as you do move forward in your new direction, you can then start upskilling them based on whichever direction you're moving in. But I think now, whether you know what direction you're going to go in or you don't, what's really critical right now is being able to train them at least in the more broad sense of okay, how do I solve complex problems? How do I handle uh higher level type of questions or those types of things? So start developing that skill set now. So that way when you do start moving in that new direction, your at least entry level or tier one agents already have some of the soft skills mastered. So that way when they learn the harder skills and master those, then they'll already be a couple steps ahead. And as we've talked in the past, any anytime you train a human being on anything new, it locks them into being more engaged than they were previously. So any type of training, any type of added benefits that you can provide to those agents now and then ongoing as you do start to move in the new direction with technology, it'll just lead to a more highly uh engaged, engaged workforce. And still work for it. And they won't quit.

Amanda Quinn 19:07
I don't know if we've we've actually covered that on the podcast before, but I love that that if I mean that makes sense that um getting on the job training would make you more loyal and think more positively of the company that you're with, and you could probably see your role in the company expanding naturally, I would imagine.

Milan Batinich 19:26
Yeah, because the yeah, the company's investing in the employee, investing time, resources, effort into the employee, which causes uh psychologically causes the employee to become more loyal because they're like, wow, this employee or this employer, this company is investing all this energy and time and resources into me to help me further develop my career, which will cause them then most of the time, typically, will cause them to be more loyal to the company or more engaged uh with the company, which has that long-term lasting benefit.

Amanda Quinn 19:58
Yeah. This is probably a dumb question, but can critical thinking and complex problem solving are those skills that can be taught to everybody? Or is there like a cog factor that like you there's only you know, only if you have some level of intellect can those types of skills be mastered?

Milan Batinich 20:22
Yeah. Ooh, that is it's not a dumb question. That is a phenomenal question. I really like that question. Um, I would like to believe that everybody can learn new things, but to be able to learn that, say let's take complex problem solving. You know, I think when we think of somebody's cognitive ability, like how fast can they learn new information, how much new information can they learn in a given period of time, how much information can they retain over time? I think people with a lower cognitive ability, yes, they can learn how to solve those complex problems. It just may take them more time or more repetition, more examples, more practice than somebody with a higher cognitive ability. So somebody with a higher cognitive ability, you may train them on how to solve complex problems. And maybe, you know, a few days or a week, they've mastered it and they're rocking and rolling on the phones, handling those complex problems. Somebody with a lower cognitive ability, you know, it may be a month later or six weeks, two months later. So I think they can eventually get there, but I think it'll I don't think I know based on all the research that's been done, that it'll just take them more time. So they can get there, but you just have to be more patient with them and it'll take them more time to get to that point. But no, I think that's okay.

Amanda Quinn 21:40
So if you're a BPO, this is probably a good reason if you're not already doing it to incorporate some sense of like a cognitive test, in addition to all the other behavioral assessments, to really get a sense of kind of what your chess pieces are a little bit from your. Team, if you're kind of viewing it that way, of like knowing we're not really sure what direction this needs to go in, but I think this person might be more nimble, able to absorb this lack of definition, role that you know what I mean. People that they're more likely to absorb that better than this type person. And so I'm gonna put them into this role, or they're this other person is a faster learner. So maybe they would be a good trainer for the rest of the team on how to be let like training up AI models or whatever. Um, you know, you can kind of like view the if you have that data, you'd be able to view each person really individually and think about what might make sense for your corporate roadmap, your employee roadmap all together versus kind of this broad brush, 10% of the agents are gonna do this, and then 10% are gonna do that.

Milan Batinich 22:52
Yeah, because then you can really identify, okay, if I need, you know, say I have 10 agents that are aspiring to become trainers, but there's a certain cognitive ability to be able to be a really good, successful trainer, and you know, and you're measuring that metric within your agents individually, and you find that okay, six of these ten really have that ability or the cognitive ability or that base, then then you know, okay, well, maybe these six, and then try to find uh a different spot for those other four. Maybe it's more of like a training assistant type role or instructional design or whatever it might be, specifically within that department. So that way they're still doing work that they enjoy. But maybe it's at a different level or a different type of specific role within that department, which to your point, having that cognitive or understanding each person's cognitive ability, then yeah, you you will know or have a better idea of what where you can plug them in, where you can't plug them in, or wherever it may take more time to plug them in based on their aspirations. And then again, more once you do that, more loyal workforce, uh, stronger company culture because you have a high, more highly engaged uh employed population. And of course, we know great cognitive tools, Amanda, right?

Amanda Quinn 24:02
Predictive Index, if you haven't heard of it before.

Milan Batinich 24:04
Predictive Index, if you haven't heard of it before, PI.

Amanda Quinn 24:09
Milan's a big fan of it. Yeah, he's pointing to the picture behind him for those listening. Uh yeah, that makes sense. Um, and I like that approach. I feel like that would I would imagine makes it feel a little bit less nebulous on how do I quite move forward. Anything else that so in addition to kind of thinking of your team, having them do some assessments, um, figuring out what direction you want to head in, and then doing micro learnings to be able to start improving the skill sets that we know, regardless of what direction AI goes in, your team is gonna need anything else they should be thinking about on the employee engagement side here?

Milan Batinich 24:53
Not that I not that I can think of right now.

Amanda Quinn 24:55
Okay. Um yeah, I think what I keep going back and forth on whether what I think is the chicken or the egg. Like what I think is my advice on where to do this upskilling first. Because part of me, like certainly if you don't have your frontline agents that are upskilled, what are you you can't really sell that our team can do that kind of work, right? It's hard to sell something that's not really true.

Milan Batinich 25:26
Right. But at the same which leading up to this point, you should already be training and upskilling your agents, anyways. Because as we all know, most people that are running operations or sales or training QA, whatever it is within a BPO, typically they've all started as agents, whether at your company or at a different company, they were once an agent. So should already be continually upskilling them, anyways. But go ahead.

Amanda Quinn 25:51
Good call out, good call out for those that uh that aren't doing that, you should be doing that. Um, but those that are, I wonder if so. Then I guess, okay, so if if they're already upskilling their teams and that's already an effort that's ongoing, this is just kind of a change of what maybe you're doing or addition to the types of trainings that you're already doing. I think the biggest opportunity, if I were a BPO CEO, I would be upskilling my client services team. I would be actively focused on how to make sure that they are solution-oriented folks that are really able to have conversations, strategic conversations with your clients to find out what is going on. What are they looking for? What are their needs? What are their challenges? What are their struggles? Don't assume the answer is people, right? Just finding out, being that safe space for clients to kind of voice what they're looking for.

Milan Batinich 26:54
That that is good. That is good. To be solution oriented, not just focused on people or focused on, okay, clients, how do we try to get more butts and more seats? Being truly solution focused. Yes. Then ultimately the brand's going to be with you much longer if you're focused on real solutions instead of just how do we get more butts and seats.

Amanda Quinn 27:17
Yes, 100%. And you'll get a much if you upskill them to be to have that mindset. And then you start encouraging that all of your QBRs are not just a we're we hit these metrics, like the most basic, look at this trend line. Like that is table stakes. I I keep saying to my clients, I'm like, that should be slides in the appendix that you send of the deck. That is not what the QBR should be about.

Milan Batinich 27:45
Yeah, it shouldn't be, oh, this is what sets us apart. Like, no, that's just basic 101. That shouldn't be what sets you apart. Like you said, table stakes. That's just your foundation.

Amanda Quinn 27:56
Right. Like you want to hear from your client. Okay, like what are your pressures? What are you feeling internally? What are your mandates? What's what is your corporate uh your level? What are your goals? What are you guys striving towards? Okay, how does that cast and like let's talk about that? What does that mean for your department? How's that cascading down? Okay, how can we, as your partner, be a better partner to help you hit those goals? How can we make you look like a rock star? Okay, you're you're, I'm just throwing something out there. Like you're a support leader, you're saying that you're just you have no internal capital, you're being viewed as just a cost center, nobody, you know, your budget ostensibly every year is getting hacked or you're getting pressure to reduce it. Okay, that's not great. How your all the client data points that we have, are we leveraging them? Are they being fed into product to make your solution better? Are they being fed into merchandising to help decide what products that you guys should have in stock if you're a retailer? Are they the great nuggets that that we as the BPO see and have at our touch points, at our disposal? Are we helping you make better decisions as a company? Like that, those are some of the types of questions that I would think BPOs need to be asking now. And then if the if the brand is like, yes, I would love all those things, like great, now go turn to the rest of the org and be like, hey, this is what our clients are looking for. They want this, they want this, they want that. Now we can know what to build. Now we know how we need to upskill our team. Like they want really robust analytics commit uh capabilities and voice of the customer. So how do we how do we start enabling that? What do we have to do? What does that look like? Like now you are not just pie in the sky picking the strategy and the upskilling. Now it's very tactical and it's client-driven, which is how it should be. Um, because that ensures that what you're building is something that they really want and will value.

Milan Batinich 29:56
Yeah. Yeah, I I agree. And uh and then you can even not not only do that with existing, do it with new clients. And if you're a brand listening or watching this, that's something you should be thinking about as well. If you're gonna be looking for a BPO, like what's which BPOs that you meet with are willing to provide a solution, not a solution, but the solution that you need specific to what is needed for your customer experience versus you know, meeting with BPOs that are saying uh that well, this is just how we do it. And so making the brands adapt. The brands should not be adapting to the BPO, the BPO should be adapting to their clients, to your point. So uh, you know, identifying, okay, are they willing to or able to meet my needs based on the solutions I need versus versus the opposite. So no, I I agree. I think that's great.

Amanda Quinn 30:50
And I would really love to see, like, I know historically the business process outsourcing has been a functional order taker role, right? The beep the brand sets what they're looking for, their SLAs, their guidance, creates the rubric of what excellent looks like. And it's the BPO's responsibility to adhere to it. And I think the rallying cry that I would love BPOs to start embodying is how can you start bringing more pro being more proactive with your clients, but bringing your perspective, having served lots of companies like them, like the brand only knows their side. They only see their side. They don't know in the back the best practices that they read and hear about conferences and whatnot. You live it all day long with a variety of clients in a variety of different industries, most likely, directed workflows. Bring that excellence to your clients and say, hey, have you thought about this? We would recommend you overhaul your training. Your this is um, this takes way too long. We think make these changes. Like that, those are the kinds of solutions that I think brands are eagerly looking for and will really set you apart in both the sales conversation with new prospects, but the ongoing client relationship that you have with your current clients.

Milan Batinich 32:12
Right, definitely. Well, and as a BPO, that'll help you develop case studies as well, then, because then you can show off to brands well, this is what we were able to do for this client. This is what we were able to do for this client. Here's how we were able to customize the solution for this client. And so then uh yeah, it'll go much further for those brands too, because then it'll open up their eyes even further into the possibilities of how everything can be improved within their customer experience. Well, things they may not have been aware of or things that they didn't realize was even possible. Yep.

Amanda Quinn 32:44
Yep. And you're all the while while you're doing that, you're setting yourself apart from your competitors, you're differentiating, you're getting building real expertise at solving problems, different problems, and moving beyond kind of just the fixed margin labor arbitrage old way of doing things, right? So that's that's the opportunity here that BPOs have.

Milan Batinich 33:08
Um so I know we Yeah, and if BPOs need help with uh figuring that out as they move forward or figuring out employee engagements, I know two really good people that can help consult for them, you know, Amanda and Milan. Yeah are the two that I'm thinking of.

Amanda Quinn 33:22
I can vouch. I think those are some excellent options for BPOs to consider. Well, thank you, Milan. Great chatting with you today. I hope uh our audience found this helpful. I think this is a really important topic, and I can't wait to see BPO start to enact it.

Milan Batinich 33:37
Yeah, same here. Same here. Can't wait.

Amanda Quinn 33:41
Bye, everyone.